I thought I would create this post as a place for you put comments about pretty much anything in class. Remember we post insightful, creative, positive, constructive, and maybe even the occasional random thought.
It was a pleasure to meet some of your parents today! I told them that I feel very lucky to have such a dynamic and engaging first class. A great first week and I look forward to the rest of the year.
well the lecture about the athens and acropolis was quite interesting! I think I have some interesting ideas about the "height" that mr.shulha told us to think about. I have read u p to statues section and the architecture section just blew my mind. I have read the ancient greek section in a book called "Understanding Architecture" and I found the section in Arts and Ideas quite similar. I am looking forward to seeing you all on Monday and share some thoughts I have about greek architecture! (and planning eventually)
To those who participated thanks for doing so. To my two thinkers who made it into the "The Incredible thinking jar" well done-I EXPECT to see you all there before the semester is done!
I hope new people will be participating on Thursday and Friday when we talk about sculpture!
Today in class, we discussed the ratios hidden in the Parthenon. At the end of class, I thought that the ratio is not as significant as other details are. However, while reading the section about Idealism, I learned that mathematics behind arts are just as significant. For example, our book states that the mathematics behind music is more permanent -and thus more significant- than the actual melody. The harmony behind the melody is "ideal". Applying this idea to architecture and the Parthenon, I now think that the geometry of the Parthenon is a symbol of the permanence and perfection of the temple. I would like to hear what everbody (including Mr. Shulha) thinks about my comment.
Yigit (apologies on my mac and no Turkish characters), I agree with what you are saying and think it is a great observation. As with everything that we are studying this year there will always be deeper layers of analysis to one which can pursue. Your observations about music are fantastic. When I say the ratios are not important what I mean is, for our general purposes, what we need to be aware of is the sense of harmony that the Parthenon exudes- as in every piece fits perfectly. What you are looking at is why does every piece seem to fit perfectly-a deeper layer of questioning. The answer to that is the geometry. And I agree with whether you are examining the intervals in a piece of music or the ratio of proportions in a building, what you are doing is examining a fundamental mathematical aspect of each art that is the foundation of its permanence. I congratulate you for this line of thinking and encourage you to explore your ideas on the blog or in class where applicable. If you are really interested in looking at the relationship between mathematics, music and architecture do some research on a church called Cluny III. It was believed to have been designed on the ratios of the octave, perfect 4th, perfect 5th and so. So in one sense the building is a physical representation of music! COOL!
Forgot to mention today that I was really impressed with the classes last week. I had a most enjoyable week and look forward to not only this week but also the rest of the year. thank you for also for some great thinking today! I expect more tomorrow on your little quiz!
I few days ago, I've had a very "fruitful" debate with my piano teacher about the reasons behind our taste of music and why we percive certain melodies as pleasing and some not. In this comment, I will try my best to summarize my conclusions. To start with, the strongest canditates for being pleasing melodies as those that include both major and minor scales. In other words, opposites. A piece that is purely composed of major or minor scales are (hard to find and) ordinary.
Secondly, the strongest note in a piece is the note than is closest to the tonic (starting note) that comes right before it. For instance, in F major, the strongest note is E, or in C# minor, it's C. What I mean by "the strongest note" is that is creates an inner desire to hear the next note. Trying it yourself, you can observe this effect. Sing C,D,E,F,G,A,B and stop right there. You'll see that you are expecting to hear the note C. And when you year that note, you'll be "pleased".
Thirdly, the intervals perfect 4ths and perfect 5ths are both pleasing and majestic. In other words, you can see many composers using tonic, 4th and 5th chords right next to each other. Also, especially in the Classical Era, the 5th chord (subdominant chord) is used as the second last chord, the last one being the tonic chord. Hearing the 5th chord and then the tonic chord signifies that the piece has ended. It is pretty formulaic and thats why these intervals are named “perfect”.
The “strongest” number in music is seven. One change in the note of the seventh degree in a scale changes a major scale into a minor one. This slight change has major effects on emotions. The most harmonic chord is found to be that “dominant seventh” chord with consists of four notes including the seventh note. Another example is the fact that there are seven notes in each scale except the bues scale.
In Baroque style composers, especially Bach, created a pleasing effect by having a melody at the right hand echoed in the left hand. This is Bach genius because it is not easy to compose such a melody. Bach has also composed some pieces (inventions) that echoes the main melody three times. In other words, the pianist playes three melodies with two hands. Those inventions are usually very difficul to play.
There are many other component of the pleasing effects that a melody has including repetition, cadances, some other order of chords which we could not discuss and which I find less interesting for those who are not interested in music. However, even these examples show how mathematics and reason is the cause of musical taste. In other words, “rationalism” still survives in music, especially in Classical and Baroque pieces.
I would like to hear from everyone about what they think. I hope my comments will deepen your understanding of music and rationalism.
Well, Yigit having read your response, and thinking about music, for me there was only one place to go BEETHOVEN! More specifically the end of the first movement of his third piano concerto- AWESOME! Of course what I love about Beethoven is he takes the classical formula and puts a bit of a twist on it - well a Romantic twist. Anyway, the end of the first movement is signified by those majestic intervals you were talking about. To signify to the listener that the end is coming he goes through this serious of progressions: 8,1,8,1,8,1,5,3,1! It is awesome I love how he throws the 3 in there so you don't get lost on your way home- he holds your hand all the way!
10 comments:
It was a pleasure to meet some of your parents today! I told them that I feel very lucky to have such a dynamic and engaging first class. A great first week and I look forward to the rest of the year.
well the lecture about the athens and acropolis was quite interesting! I think I have some interesting ideas about the "height" that mr.shulha told us to think about. I have read u p to statues section and the architecture section just blew my mind. I have read the ancient greek section in a book called "Understanding Architecture" and I found the section in Arts and Ideas quite similar. I am looking forward to seeing you all on Monday and share some thoughts I have about greek architecture! (and planning eventually)
To those who participated thanks for doing so. To my two thinkers who made it into the "The Incredible thinking jar" well done-I EXPECT to see you all there before the semester is done!
I hope new people will be participating on Thursday and Friday when we talk about sculpture!
Today in class, we discussed the ratios hidden in the Parthenon. At the end of class, I thought that the ratio is not as significant as other details are. However, while reading the section about Idealism, I learned that mathematics behind arts are just as significant. For example, our book states that the mathematics behind music is more permanent -and thus more significant- than the actual melody. The harmony behind the melody is "ideal". Applying this idea to architecture and the Parthenon, I now think that the geometry of the Parthenon is a symbol of the permanence and perfection of the temple. I would like to hear what everbody (including Mr. Shulha) thinks about my comment.
Yigit (apologies on my mac and no Turkish characters), I agree with what you are saying and think it is a great observation. As with everything that we are studying this year there will always be deeper layers of analysis to one which can pursue. Your observations about music are fantastic. When I say the ratios are not important what I mean is, for our general purposes, what we need to be aware of is the sense of harmony that the Parthenon exudes- as in every piece fits perfectly. What you are looking at is why does every piece seem to fit perfectly-a deeper layer of questioning. The answer to that is the geometry. And I agree with whether you are examining the intervals in a piece of music or the ratio of proportions in a building, what you are doing is examining a fundamental mathematical aspect of each art that is the foundation of its permanence. I congratulate you for this line of thinking and encourage you to explore your ideas on the blog or in class where applicable. If you are really interested in looking at the relationship between mathematics, music and architecture do some research on a church called Cluny III. It was believed to have been designed on the ratios of the octave, perfect 4th, perfect 5th and so. So in one sense the building is a physical representation of music! COOL!
"oh my god!" is what i think, people must have been really intelligent and hardworking by then! the stuff that yiğit told amazed me. fantastic it is!
Forgot to mention today that I was really impressed with the classes last week. I had a most enjoyable week and look forward to not only this week but also the rest of the year. thank you for also for some great thinking today! I expect more tomorrow on your little quiz!
Hi everyone.
I few days ago, I've had a very "fruitful" debate with my piano teacher about the reasons behind our taste of music and why we percive certain melodies as pleasing and some not. In this comment, I will try my best to summarize my conclusions. To start with, the strongest canditates for being pleasing melodies as those that include both major and minor scales. In other words, opposites. A piece that is purely composed of major or minor scales are (hard to find and) ordinary.
Secondly, the strongest note in a piece is the note than is closest to the tonic (starting note) that comes right before it. For instance, in F major, the strongest note is E, or in C# minor, it's C. What I mean by "the strongest note" is that is creates an inner desire to hear the next note. Trying it yourself, you can observe this effect. Sing C,D,E,F,G,A,B and stop right there. You'll see that you are expecting to hear the note C. And when you year that note, you'll be "pleased".
Thirdly, the intervals perfect 4ths and perfect 5ths are both pleasing and majestic. In other words, you can see many composers using tonic, 4th and 5th chords right next to each other. Also, especially in the Classical Era, the 5th chord (subdominant chord) is used as the second last chord, the last one being the tonic chord. Hearing the 5th chord and then the tonic chord signifies that the piece has ended. It is pretty formulaic and thats why these intervals are named “perfect”.
The “strongest” number in music is seven. One change in the note of the seventh degree in a scale changes a major scale into a minor one. This slight change has major effects on emotions. The most harmonic chord is found to be that “dominant seventh” chord with consists of four notes including the seventh note. Another example is the fact that there are seven notes in each scale except the bues scale.
In Baroque style composers, especially Bach, created a pleasing effect by having a melody at the right hand echoed in the left hand. This is Bach genius because it is not easy to compose such a melody. Bach has also composed some pieces (inventions) that echoes the main melody three times. In other words, the pianist playes three melodies with two hands. Those inventions are usually very difficul to play.
There are many other component of the pleasing effects that a melody has including repetition, cadances, some other order of chords which we could not discuss and which I find less interesting for those who are not interested in music. However, even these examples show how mathematics and reason is the cause of musical taste. In other words, “rationalism” still survives in music, especially in Classical and Baroque pieces.
I would like to hear from everyone about what they think. I hope my comments will deepen your understanding of music and rationalism.
Well, Yigit having read your response, and thinking about music, for me there was only one place to go BEETHOVEN! More specifically the end of the first movement of his third piano concerto- AWESOME! Of course what I love about Beethoven is he takes the classical formula and puts a bit of a twist on it - well a Romantic twist. Anyway, the end of the first movement is signified by those majestic intervals you were talking about. To signify to the listener that the end is coming he goes through this serious of progressions: 8,1,8,1,8,1,5,3,1! It is awesome I love how he throws the 3 in there so you don't get lost on your way home- he holds your hand all the way!
LONG LIVE RATIONALISM! GREAT OBSERVATIONS!
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